96,5 UNID with clear jingle on 25th May

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Rolands Strautmalis
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Location: Nītaure - Rīga, Latvia

96,5 UNID with clear jingle on 25th May

Post by Rolands Strautmalis » 13 Jun 2019 11:31

Help me identify this, please:
https://youtu.be/NNhm1yLJ914
There is a clear ID jingle, but I can't recognize it. During this signal, other stations were identified with an azimuth of 229 to 232 degrees.
Thanks to all! 73!
Receivers: Sony XDR-F1HD, Airspy Mini, antennas: AR-9 (9 element yagi, vertical), AR-9 (9 element yagi, horizontal)

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCapJkp ... V54YVZ9rCQ

theme
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Re: 96,5 UNID with clear jingle on 25th May

Post by theme » 13 Jun 2019 11:54

Rolands Strautmalis wrote:
13 Jun 2019 11:31
Help me identify this, please:
https://youtu.be/NNhm1yLJ914
There is a clear ID jingle, but I can't recognize it. During this signal, other stations were identified with an azimuth of 229 to 232 degrees.
Thanks to all! 73!
Definitely Discoradio (Italy), heard that jingle many times before. Probably from Valcava.
Probably scanning the band atm. And definitely moaning about the conditions.

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John Faulkner, Skegness
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Re: 96,5 UNID with clear jingle on 25th May

Post by John Faulkner, Skegness » 13 Jun 2019 11:57

I heard Disco Radio too, but I could not locate such a station on 96.5. An unlisted transmitter.

Rolands Strautmalis
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Location: Nītaure - Rīga, Latvia

Re: 96,5 UNID with clear jingle on 25th May

Post by Rolands Strautmalis » 13 Jun 2019 12:14

Thank you very much for the prompt response colleagues! Despite the high power in Valcava (227 degrees), it's most likely Magnano (230 degrees) because Magnano was fixed at a different frequency (90,3), but the lowest azimuth from that cloud that day was 229 degrees.

73!
Receivers: Sony XDR-F1HD, Airspy Mini, antennas: AR-9 (9 element yagi, vertical), AR-9 (9 element yagi, horizontal)

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCapJkp ... V54YVZ9rCQ

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PFM907
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Re: 96,5 UNID with clear jingle on 25th May

Post by PFM907 » 13 Jun 2019 18:26

Listed Valcava ERP for this channel of 631 000 watts (!!!) is pure imagination and fake news.
93.4 from the same site is even better, as listed with 1258 kW (= 1.258.000 watts) !!! :o
Radio Mater is supposed to have 500 kW, Radio Lombardia 800 kW - sorry guys, no WAY !!!

Those stations should be audible in Nuremberg, Regensburg, Augsburg - but of course they are NOT.

We are actually talking bout FM, not AM. These are power sizes for medium wave and short wave outlets
This massive radiation would burn down each and every cow living on the hills beneath the antenna lol. :lol:
Even more, it would waste the antenna itself as it is not able to carry such power on several QRGs.

Unfortunately, FMLIST Italy has NEVER been a reliable source, it was always very inacurate regarding tx. site, radiation power and even concerning the actual px using certain frequencies. The networks are changing too fast to edit.
But during the last 5 years, when they started to re-calculate ERP from "official" TRP / dB databases, it has even gotten worse.

These "wishful thinking", unrealistic numbers result in FMSCAN showing up Italian stations at a tropo level of 5 or 6 in
Northern Germany which can never happen because of the angle / earth surface! What is the intention of that?? :evil:

The guys from Pizzo Groppera were using 8 MW ( 8000 kW) and had a SPECIALLY DESIGNED AND BUILT AERIAL SYSTEM !
but they were radio engineering pioneers and pirates of the airwaves.
( http://web.archive.org/web/201503210419 ... s/r24f.htm )

These ERP numbers for official commercial network radio stations in 2019 are just as physically impossible as ridiculous.
Sorry friends, 1 Megawatt on FM from a standard Kathreinantenna system is pure bull sh... :roll:

Franco Martelli
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Re: 96,5 UNID with clear jingle on 25th May

Post by Franco Martelli » 13 Jun 2019 22:52

As a proud collaborator of FMLIST Italy, I think that your judgements are simply unrespectful of our serious and continous work in updating this extremely complicated part of Fmlist database: it's good to remember that Italian entries are more than 17000, while for example the German ones are just 3000, the French ones less than 9000, the Swedish ones 1700 only.

I think that in the last two or three years we have drastically reduced the number of mistakes and lacks into our database; but "drastically reduced" means that there are always some mistakes and lacks.

So if you can help us to a better work on information about Italy in favor of the whole community of Fmdxing (but based on real data and not only on mere impressions), join the Fmlist's collaborators team and everybody will be thankful to you.
Rx: Degen DE-1103, Sangean ATS-909

theme
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Re: 96,5 UNID with clear jingle on 25th May

Post by theme » 14 Jun 2019 01:43

Franco Martelli wrote:
13 Jun 2019 22:52
As a proud collaborator of FMLIST Italy, I think that your judgements are simply unrespectful of our serious and continous work in updating this extremely complicated part of Fmlist database: it's good to remember that Italian entries are more than 17000, while for example the German ones are just 3000, the French ones less than 9000, the Swedish ones 1700 only.

I think that in the last two or three years we have drastically reduced the number of mistakes and lacks into our database; but "drastically reduced" means that there are always some mistakes and lacks.

So if you can help us to a better work on information about Italy in favor of the whole community of Fmdxing (but based on real data and not only on mere impressions), join the Fmlist's collaborators team and everybody will be thankful to you.
Oh and btw, I've proposed changes to some wrong/outdated data a couple of weeks ago. Why didn't they get accepted?

PS well I get you, you're an editor in a country where a single station has about 900 relays. With its signal being so powerful it's common belief that antennas are located up there.
Probably scanning the band atm. And definitely moaning about the conditions.

Franco Martelli
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Re: 96,5 UNID with clear jingle on 25th May

Post by Franco Martelli » 14 Jun 2019 07:35

theme wrote:
14 Jun 2019 01:43
Franco Martelli wrote:
13 Jun 2019 22:52
As a proud collaborator of FMLIST Italy, I think that your judgements are simply unrespectful of our serious and continous work in updating this extremely complicated part of Fmlist database: it's good to remember that Italian entries are more than 17000, while for example the German ones are just 3000, the French ones less than 9000, the Swedish ones 1700 only.

I think that in the last two or three years we have drastically reduced the number of mistakes and lacks into our database; but "drastically reduced" means that there are always some mistakes and lacks.

So if you can help us to a better work on information about Italy in favor of the whole community of Fmdxing (but based on real data and not only on mere impressions), join the Fmlist's collaborators team and everybody will be thankful to you.
Oh and btw, I've proposed changes to some wrong/outdated data a couple of weeks ago. Why didn't they get accepted?

PS well I get you, you're an editor in a country where a single station has about 900 relays. With its signal being so powerful it's common belief that antennas are located up there.
As I wrote, I am a collaborator not a editor: it's not my task to accept or reject the proposed changes.
But, if you send me more information about the changes you've required, I will try to understand the reasons of this lack of answers.

For the second part of your post, we have several unofficial sources to compare with official data; but you know well that (especially in some regions of our "Italian boot") the lack of respect in common laws and rules has become common law and rule.
With thousands of useless relays, with hundreds of Megawatt of energy wasted, Italian band 2 needs to be radically rationalised; but nobody has the strenght or the interest to do it...........
Rx: Degen DE-1103, Sangean ATS-909

Günter Lorenz
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Re: 96,5 UNID with clear jingle on 25th May

Post by Günter Lorenz » 16 Jun 2019 19:09

Dear PFM907,

your "fake news" accusation regarding the powers listed in FMLIST for Italian FM stations, and your respectless, polemic and incompetent statement about FMLIST Italy cannot remain unreplied, and I trust the reply will be useful also for other readers here.

In a hobby community like this, we have common values, objectives, and rules, often unwritten, but perceived and lived by all community members. Your statement makes me feel that you do not share the values, objectives and rules of this community. It is not your first time ... and I can only suggest that you carefully consider if you want to stay a member of this community, if you really share our values, objectives, and rules.
Everyone is free to doubt and express doubts. One of the unwritten rules is that we treat each other respectfully. That excludes "shooting the messenger" and discrediting hobby colleagues and other hobby platforms. Especially when one is a non-user of the FMLIST logbook, withholding his great DX results and deep insider knowledge from the community and public scrutiny. Critical views are acceptable if they are substantiated, constructive and benefitial. But we are not the punching ball for frustrated DXers.

Here are some facts about our data sources in Italy:
The powers listed in FMLIST are taken from the official and public website of AGCOM, the Italian regulator. All data there originates from the radio stations themselves - they have to compile modules (electronically) to submit and update their data to AGCOM. This self-declaration ("autocertificazione") is used widely in Italy for many administrative processes, and any misuse is punishable by law. So, why should a radio station declare "fake" or eccessively high powers if it were not true? Of course there are a few transcription problems, where e.g. a 63 Watt tx has been declared by the radio station as having 63 dbW - our editors know these cases and obviously have not added the incorrect value to FMLIST. Further, our editors are in continuous contact with radio stations, engineers, service providers, and competent authorities including AGCOM, to obtain and verify information.
Technically, there are no doubts that these values are realistic, if you consider them peak values in the main antenna direction. For Valcava, 30 kW TRP is used, and antenna systems with very high gain and high directivity, made by specialized Italian companies (Kathrein is not the only company that can do big antennas), are used. The antennas are tilted slightly downwards to cover the Greater Milano area. Almost no signal is going out at their back. It is true that such high powers would not be permitted with residents nearby. The Valcava site by design (look at the map!) has no residents "below" the antennas. And indeed there are reports of birds dying when they fly in front of the antennas.

Further, I cannot accept your unsubstantiated and general criticism of FMLIST Italy. What you write is a personal impression of a grumpy old man (although you are not that old yet), but the facts are very different: The database is in a very good shape, updates are made almost in real time. "The networks are changing too fast to edit" is absolute nonsense: Who are you to make such a statement, and what are your sources / facts ?
You write: "Unfortunately, FMLIST Italy has NEVER been a reliable source": What has been YOUR contribution to make it better, other than complaining and throwing s..t at those who are at work? Where is the list of errors you've found? Put the facts on the table, or stop writing such nonsense.

Best regards
Günter Lorenz
UKW/TV-Arbeitskreis e.V.
Chefredakteur FMLIST

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PFM907
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Re: 96,5 UNID with clear jingle on 25th May

Post by PFM907 » 17 Jun 2019 01:38

Good morning.
I don't see the point in getting personal. It has never been that way, very sorry to hear that some of you probably felt this way. Regrets and excuses if so. My impression is that 98 % of the countries in FMLIST are correct by each more than 97 % (apart from Syria, Libya etc. but I do not take this into consideration - there aren't any sources for war zones like that). This is a huge success. I did not mention this at first, but would that have made it easier to judge what I wrote about the Italy data (which is, of course, my own personal statement)? So no reason for all of us to spend too much time, blood, sweat, tears or nerves on this topic. Let us stay focused and concentrate on this much too short sporadic-e season. But still a few words regarding the misunderstanding in judgement, as you took the time to read and reply in patience I will do this myself. Let me first of all state in clarity, that each and every mistake which might be in FMLIST / FMSCAN is mostly a fault of external source. No FMLIST editor is to blame in this case!!! I did not make myself clear in the first place, and I beg your pardon (to all, whom it may concern) for that misunderstanding / prejudistic and overreacted way of making it look like if I was not respecing peoples' work instead of doubting external sources. I remember a time when we had both, "I" and "ITA" FMLIST for Italy. Maybe putting those together has already caused some mistakes? Just wondering...

I see the efforts as well as I accept most of the current and past editors and appreciate their free-time work. Don't get me wrong to make this look different. I am using my free-time to hear others' soundfiles and help people searching for their UNIDs instead without even being asked because I just like to do it, what is wrong with that? I am doing this for ten years now on youtube, listening to other videos, comparing my movies with others and trying to help, also asking for help if possible. I love that, it is captivating detective work and sometimes we come up with the solution all together after years if someone has the right idea or is seing the point in language, angle or location of one certain log. I think it is a good way to collect jingles and claims of past summers, to hear what Icelandic sounds like, what makes the difference between the style of speaking and presenting a mainstream hitradio show in Finland and Estonia with languages that sound very strange but almost similar for many people not being able to talk them...I do not want respect from anybody. It is my free will and intention to help others, and I do it the best way I can. I do not owe anything to anybody and I still think it is great fun browsing youtube for Sporadic-E UNIDs and working on a solution along with others. myFM is too difficult in usability from my point of view. As well as it is too one-sided, because on Youtube everybody from around the world is able to find a clip, on myFM only people who are interested in DX will search for them (plus keeping the fact in mind that many DXers do not use myFM as well). The biggest mystery is the unsolved one, the log you would not have believed in, the result you never had expected, the station you never heard before, and that are the ones which keep me fascinated in DX.

Today, a total of 200+ people are registred and subscribed to my DX logs (which is almost ZERO if you look at other channels) and hundreds of recordings of mine have been put on the web, with the purpose not to show others what I have been able to pick up (because it is more or less worthless CHR / AC radio from typical E-Skip destinations), but moreover to give others the possibility to compare their recorded jingles or presenters with mine and maybe finding out anothers' UNIDs this way. Each and every sound recording which I think might be interesting or helpful for others, is published on my youtube channel. These catches are everything but spectacular. They are not very stable. They are not far-away either. And what I like in particular, maybe 200 other people find it boring. But maybe it helps to identify anothers' DX reception. And even if one single person (especially outside the DX community) finds my logs exciting or entertaining, it is worth the little effort I take. It is just a hobby, come on! DX is no championship. I would not call that egoistic or selfish anyway. But if that's your point of view, I can accept this and still have to move on and live with that. Nobody will be forced to join my channel, to watch my DX videos or to ask for help. But I am still glad if someone does, everybody might also send me an email with an mp3 attached. I also share my QSL experience with the world, providing cards and addresses of the important persons concerned (nowadays, delivering or sharing email addresses of studio technicians or front desk workers, head of press etc. has become quite impossible because of data safety rights regulations), not because it is so special in times where everybody can get one QSL card for tuning in via satellite or internet live stream / webcast channel. But to encorage others to maybe turn on his radio, plug in his aerial, search the listings (online or offline) and try out, too. Maybe even to send out a reception report themselves to keep the very few foreign services on AM alive for one year longer or so.

There might have been very few "experts" who do not like to cooperate or did enter wrong data or at least removed right data, also in foreign listings, but not on purpose, for sure (at least I hope so). I don't know about that, but the radiation power has been changed extremely since the semi-official AGCOM source is used (semi-official because the data comes from the station itself, no one can prove that). It is the same with printed schedule editions, frequency listings or even "newly released" books in 2019 that still have DR P2 on FM4-network even if they left it nine years ago. I prefer a pessimistic lower ERP instead of an unrealistic, high one.

The reasons for insufficient or untrusted sources (and this is, as I said, nobody's fault at FMLIST in the first place) are in fact much more simple. In general, I see five problems with keeping countries like IT and ES but also GR up-to-date, while databases not only in other European countries, but as well as in the US, Canada or Australia (with the same number of radio stations or even more!) is working perfectly (and this is NOT the fault of any of the editors at all, to be very clear about that.). Take a look at Asia, great achievements have been made in the past to make this a real world-wide database. You should be proud on that and not argue about how useful it is trying to keep Belgium or Italy up-to-date. Sisyphos was a happy man. And nobody has to claim FMLIST to be 100 % correct.

1.
The first one is (no matter if fully intended, "laisser-faire" attitude or due to lack of knowledge at the broadcaster - this is, however a problem) information given by the station's operator or owner (in some countries that might be another person or company, in others it is all in one hand) that is simply WRONG. Reasons for that might be various: Desk people working in a technical position without knowing about physics and airwave propagation, engineers filling out the papers incorrectly while on duty, one "zero" more or less in the column, dot and / or comma at the wrong position, doing his or her job not correctly due to lack of time or interest, too much work and just a "tick" more and some paperwork less on the "to-do" stock...Anyway, if a media authority of a certain country offers licensee holders the possibility to rule in and state their own information without checking them (how?) and without any manpower or knowledge to check (where to look for errors?), this is, for sure, a source of possible WRONG data. You might love to compare this to a prison guard handing out lock keys for the main entrance door to all of the attendees and adding the phrase "Please be home again on time". Everything might be okay. But this is just closing the eyes or looking another way because there is no interest or knowledge in checking the data at the authorities which station operators hand in, but who wants to prove the opposite? And again, it is not FMLIST's fault that some countries handle it that way (and others do not even care about licensed radiation power being used correctly and programming content is broadcast according to the license, or not care about licenses at all). In Italy, it seems to me, that nobody cares about anything regarding interfering neighboring stations, reaching and addressing target audience outside the licensed area or protecting local radio. As far as I understand, your point of view is: Why should someone lie about that? Yes, this can be true. But it also can be true, that stating overrated high radiation power in a document will result in tax adventages or favors in licensing because of the "official" extense power coasts or threatening lack of money to pay the bills. But I ask you: What is the advantage in being honest with that, if nobody ever finds out and even if so, nobody will take the stations' owner to court and judge him? By what? Because he will state that in a situation of stress, he put the comma at the wrong position and has written "500 kW" instead of "500 W" ? You might reach 5 million listeners with 500 watts from Monte Venda, Monte Vesuvio or Monte Lauro easily, by the way. And it would not be the first case a station operator is sending out wrong data about a mast location etc. I do not think, most of those errors are intended. The opposite - in most cases, it is carelessness. In the past, I have received wrong information by stations as well by governmental authorities. Who cares? Sometimes, data is wrong. People make mistakes. But noone should spread or publish data until it is 100% verified. Otherwise, doubt is pretty natural until there is proof.

In some cases, even the data provided on the FMLIST database differs a lot from the one you will be shown using FMSCAN. ERP, not Pdir.
So what reason do I have to believe WHICH ONE of them is the right one? If both differ from each other, the chance is high that a third one is the "real" one".

Let us take 93.4 MHz with Radio Studio Piu`.
FMLIST database says: 1258.9 kW
FMSCAN for Arco says: 1300 kW.

The same on 96.5 with Discoradio:
FMLIST: 631 kW
FMSCAN: 630 kW

Or 100.3 with Radio Lombardia:
FMLIST: 794.3 kW
FMSCAN: 790 kW

Or 104.8 with Radio 24:
FMLIST: 632.4 kW
FMSCAN: 630 kW

So we have three possibilities here:
a) FMLIST is right, FMSCAN is wrong.
b) FMSCAN is right, FMLIST is wrong.
c) both are wrong. number X is right.

I would take the latter one into consideration.
My conciousness, awareness and life experience regarding statistics have made me a careful person when it comes to numbers.
And please remember: Nobody wants any ERP to be wrong. But when working with so many numbers, there have to be errors.

The difference FMLIST vs. FMSCAN is not understandable to me. At least ONE of the numbers HAS TO BE wrong. You have to agree: Not BOTH OF THEM can be correct!!!
If I see two different results on both, it is my right as a thinking human being to doubt both of them until I know WHICH one is true. So there is reason to doubt the ERP.

Is there ANY PROOF that 93.4 MHz from Valcava is using 1300 kW ERP? Or let me ask the question this way: Is there any proof that the data found on the AGCOM database has been entered correctly already back then? Until there is no proof, it is my best option to doubt this. You might not love it but it is my point of view.

2.
The second one is transcription errors. Might happen at any time, and with all respect, it is NOT anyone's fault if originally WRONG data is entered, published or spread. 0,5 kW or 0,05 kW might look close, but the results are very different. Also it is a difference to write "5.300 watts" or "5,300 watts". First one is 5300 watts or 5,3 kW, second one is 5,3 watts or ~5 watts!!! Possibility for errors. Also regarding incorrect FMLIST spellings of sites or the danish regulation to write AA instead of Å (which is a minor problem, but still very annoying).
Examples:

FMLIST says: Gagnheidi, Ćelevac, Myadzel, Kostiukovichi=Kastsiukovičy, Ålbæk, Århus, Årsballe, Åkirkeby, Södra Strandby
correct name: Gagnheiði, Ćelavac, Myadzyel, Kostyukovichi=Kastsyukovichy, Aalbæk, Aarhus, Aarsballe, Aakirkeby, Södra Sandby (!!!)

No matter what you try, some sites will not show up on Google Maps when you search for the name until you spell it the right way.
I also wonder why (search for "LBORG" / "DNK" / "njy" on FMLIST database) some Aalborg sites are spelled correctly as "Aalborg/" and others are still "Ålborg/".
You will even find "Aalborg Airport" as well as "Ålborg Airport" on the list which is pure inconsequent and just not logical.
One city, two different way how to write it. And both are in the database. I just don't get it!

"Århus" but "Aarhusvej 70" in FMLIST.
"Radio Alfa Århus" but "Radio Krishna Aarhus" also in FMLIST.

"Helsinki - Helsingfors" on all stations, but only "Helsinki" on 97.1 and 105 FM.
"Tampere - Tammerfors" on all stations, but only "Tampere" on 94.1, 97.2, 101.6, 102.1 (the latter one is the minority station in Swedish language, how ironic)...
Why? Swedish is official 2nd language in Southern Finland.

3.
The networks are indeed changing too fast to be corrected or edited. This fact should be accepted. I am wondering every year at the beginning of the new E-Skip season, how much has changed within a few months: Names, frequencies, RDS. 3 different station names with in 2 years for one frequency are usual in Athens. And this is NOBODY's fault who is working with the data. Take a pick, at one certain day e.g. when M80radio became Los 40 Classics - there are like 200 transmitters connected with that network. But of course, it is not enough to change the name and RDS once and push this forward to the others, because of local names which were different before from now, because of local names that existed before and are non-existent now, because each local studio uses a different RDS-PS, RDS-PI...
In southern countries, stations operate on temp. licences or even without any (Greece: NONE of the stations that are active after March 2019 does own a valid license, but still the programmes are on air, without legal status).

Example: ANS ÇM Birinci FM in Azerbaidjan was shut down by the government three years ago. Still in FMLIST. Still alive and kicking according to FMSCAN.
No one ever recognized. And if I haven't told you now, it would be stuck in there forever. Wrong data, outdated. And yes, I should have reported it early, was up to do it, but forgot it once, and again. And even if, I am not possible to find and report every mistake. Just not able to. Sorry for that.

4.
The financial and social situation in countries such as Italy, Spain, Greece is quite difficult and differs a lot from ours. People have other (real) problems than the nearby mast carrying 3 or 5 dipol aerials or using 300 or 5000 watts. Stations are sold, going bancrupt, closing down, taken over by big networks, people losing their jobs, cannot afford the rent any longer, unable to pay the bills for the car leasing... The changes especially in local Italian radio but also in commercial Greek radio during the past 5-10 years had massive consequencies. This might not be foreseen for someone in Genova or Roma, if a small station from Sardegna or Sicilia without website and live streaming is being shut down. Even stations with a history of decades (VFM, NRJ Athens) have left the airwaves without any word from the press. Nobody ever recognized, until some one came up with that. And again, NO ONE is to punish for that.

5.
Outdated data and / or double listings and / or technical issues when two countries are involved. A problem in general and again, this is not the fault of any FMLIST editor who tries his best to be correct.
Some examples, because you asked for that:

92 S sn Burlöv/ Arlöv/ Rapsvägen 63-67 13°00'52E/ 55°38'16N Burlöv Lomma NR/Radio92/R. Kommunist/R.Frihet/R. PRO/R.Liguan/R. Amigos/R.Musicdream 12 40 40 0.1 v N
92 S sn Arlöv/ Elisetorpsvägen 11 D 13°01'54E/ 55°37'54N Radio 92 E004 10 25 29 0.1 v N

According to my information this is the same station and only the tx. location has changed over the years. Who should ever know? If someone enters the new site, it might as well be an additional site.

Another one:

104.7 DNK hvs Karlebo/ Kokkedal/ Vandtårnsvej 4/ Vandtårnet 12°28'38E/ 55°55'13N Guldkanalen __GULD__ KANALEN_ _102,6__ __****__ __FOR___ _VUXNA__ __ORON__ [artist] [title_] 104.7HBG 6699 973C 27 40 55 2 v D 270
104.7 S sn Karlebo - Kokkedal/ Vandtårnsvej/ Vandtårnet [DNK,hvs] 12°28'38E/ 55°55'13N Guldkanalen __GULD__ KANALEN_ _102,6__ __****__ __FOR___ _VUXNA__ __ORON__ [artist] [title_] 6699 27 40 55 2 v D 90

Again, same station, same site - one entry for SE and another one for DK. But in fact, it does exist only once from this location, which is of course the same. No one is to blame, the SE editor is not supposed to watch all on-going changes in DK and the other way round.

One more:
104.1 S sn Kristianstad/ Videllsgatan 1 14°09'38E/ 56°01'23N 5 50 50 0.2 c v D 000-170
104.1 S sn Kristianstad/ Videllsgatan 1 14°09'38E/ 56°01'23N NRJ Skåne __NRJ___ E220 5 50 50 0.2 v D 000-170

Just double entry.

As well as:
94.6 S sn Åhus/ Åhusvägen 14°16'11E/ 55°54'24N NRJ Skåne __NRJ___ E220 7 43 0.5 v D
94.6 S sn Åhus/ Åhusvägen 14°16'11E/ 55°54'24N 7 42 0.5 c v D

And:
94.7 S sn Ängelholm/ Vegeholm/ Vattentornet 12°53'22E/ 56°15'35N NRJ Skåne NRJ_____ E220 34 64 98 0.25 v N
94.7 S sn Ängelholm/ Vegeholm/ Vattentornet 12°53'22E/ 56°15'35N 34 85 93 0.25 c v N

Or:
106.2 S sn Bromölla/ Nymölla/ Stora Nymölla Europolitan RM 14°29'07E/ 56°02'39N Mix Megapol Öresund regionen MEGAPOL_ E243 8 60 64 0.8 v D
106.2 S sn Bromölla/ Nymölla/ Stora Nymölla Europolitan RM 14°29'07E/ 56°02'39N 8 60 64 0.8 c v D

Interesting one:

98.1 D mev Greifswald 13°23'45E/ 54°05'04N RM NB-Radiotreff 88,0 _OK_M-V_ 147A 4 93 97 0.2 h N
98.1 D mev Greifswald 13°23'45E/ 54°05'04N RM Radio 98eins _OK_M-V_ 147A 4 93 97 0.2 h N

The same station, but different named parts of the programme used in time-sharing. Why two entries for the same station? Why not write "Radio 98eins / NB-Radiotreff 88,0" or put "relays NB-Radiotreff" into the commentary section?

Yes, it might be difficult to get reliable, verified data from governmental institutions, authorities or broadcast operators in Greece or Italy.
But this is the same in Belarus or even in Denmark or Belgium (where listed power and real power might slightly differ and you have to deal with at least 3 or 4 parties being involved when looking for a mast location or radiation power).

You asked for a few examples, and indeed I have experienced a few in the past weeks, which I just don't get. Very small mistakes or misunderstandings mostly, but might have a larger effect.

Enter Bratislava as location and just generate a bandscan without changing any settings. On 98.9 you will find a mix-frequency coming from the Radio Slovakia building in Mýtna 1. I really doubt, that during times when the foreign language service is on, the directional power towards the city centre of this frequency is 33 watts and during times with the 5th national programme using the same frequency from the same transmitter location, it is 5 watts only. This can't be true, honestly.

There are TV entries on FMLIST without valid coordinates and / or location (???) which show up for any place in Europe when searching their QRG on the sporadic-e mode:

65.75 CLM RTI 2 km - 34 -
65.75 PHL NATIONAL POWER CORP./D-3-ZN km - 0.01 -
65.75 PHL PTV NETWORK/D-3-ZV km - 0.02 -
65.75 PRU Andina de TV km - 2
65.75 URG TV COLONIA + RTC km - 0.1
67.75 v SWZ Swazi TV 1429m km - 0.001
67.75 h YEM YTS km - 0.04
71.75 B TV ACRE Acre km - 0.05
71.75 B TV RORAIMA Roraima km - 0.05
71.75 B unknown Santa Angelo km - 0.5
71.75 B TV SANTA CRUZ Santa Cruz km - 10
71.75 CLM RTI 2 Gabinete km - 1 -
71.75 PHL REPUBLIC BC SYSTEM/D-4-XT Dipolung City km - 0.005 -
71.75 PHL SEMIRA COAL COPR./DYSC Caluya km - 0.005 -
71.75 PHL PTV NETWORK/PU Goa km - 0.2 -
71.75 PHL ABS-CBN/DXAG Iligac City km - 0.84 -
71.75 PHL ABS-CBN/DYXL Mt. Kanladog, Murica km - 2.4 -
71.75 PRU Andina de TV unknown km - 2 -
71.75 MYA TV MYANMAR unknown km - (1) -
71.75 PHL RADIO PHIL. NETWORK/D-7-XR Colina Hills, Cotabato km - (1) -

I also get Canadian television on 66.26 MHz when in sporadic-e mode for any place in Europe as well as those ones ("there is something, but what and where?"):
66.29 s I Unid km - (1) -
66.35 s I Unid 1827km - (1)
68.02 s I Unid km - (1)

Searching the database and entering "unknown" to the location field brings up tons of more or less useful stations. Some of them are just useless:

68.87 BLR unknown BR Kanal Kultura/OIRT 0
104.3 LBY - unknown unid 0

The latter one could be anything. Better leave it out until there is any proof of existance and link to a city or content.

Talking about Italy, enter "ARCO" in FMLIST. Results are partly unrealistic because of the very high ERP numbers.
You will find
-3x 160 kW stations on 88.3 + 88.4 + 88.5 FM (despite of 88.3 in use by local px!)
-320 kW station on 89.6 listed next to local 89.7 (94 dB!!!)
-500 kW station on 90.2 listed next to local 90.1
-160 kW station on 90.3 listed next to local 90.4
-250 kW station on 91.3 despite locals next to it (71 dB) and on the same frequency (66 dB)!!!
-400 kW station on 92.1 listed despite local station (70 dB) on the SAME frequency!
-630 kW station on 92.4 listed despite local station (74 dB) on the SAME frequency!

As you can see now (and as you will certainly hear when going there), those extreme ERP numbers have changed the behaviour of FMLIST,
which does now keep in mind the hypsographic and earth ground much more than ever before, so massive that it became totally unrealistic.

Three more general questions / enquiries:
- Kaliningrad is regarded as own ITU. Why does FMLIST offer those stations under "RUS" / "KA" instead?
- Kosovo is regarded as independent country for years and has always been found at "SRB" / "kos". Now, suddenly it was transferred to "RKS". Why?
- How useful is it to put Bornholm radio stations at "DNK" / "hvs" ? Anyone looking for a certain QRG on the island has to look through all Kbh. stations.


And at last, what I find R-E-A-L-L-Y annoying during OIRT DX:
Why isn't it possible to run a search on FMSCAN for 66.17 or other "uneven" frequencies, then change the options and just go back to the frequency?
Instead I get this one and have to change the frequency first (better adjust to unintended 66.15 or 66.2) and scan again above for the requested 66.17:
"Bitte wählen Sie einen gültigen Wert. Die zwei nähesten gültigen Werte sind 66.15 und 66.2"
OIRT still has a lot of those uneven frequencies and it would be very useful to treat them like normal QRGs.

I hope, you are now able to understand my doubts a little better. Of course, my way to express them was not the finest and I apologize for that. Some people are simply not working effective in groups and there must be people working on their own, too.

Let me finish with a few very personal words. I am far-away from good health (and this is not a question of age or being a "grumpy old man") and I had in mind stopping this whole DX thing very often in the past few (4-5) years or so. Indeed, the challenges are getting less thanks to digitalization of television (and radio in some countries very soon, Norway has made a very bad start, let us hope for DAB+ taking over FM in Italy pretty soon). OIRT is almost empty in Russia these days. Radio has become music playback with ads. QSLs are not delivered any longer at most stations. I have really been argueing with my inner self about the sense, if it might be time to stop or if I still continue another year. This is time loss as well as it is loss of health and power. After the very good 2017 ES season and the outstanding winter on AM, I decided to go on another year to experience a last, exciting summer. 2018 was poor. ES season was over until it even had begun. So I thought, let's give it a try in 2019. What a waste of time! Again...How disappointing.

I suppose, it is now a good time to stop. I wrote it here some days ago, there is no use to me in keep going on. No sense in keeping up the work (which is my free-time, as well).
There are actually more important things in life than discussing about the fact if a radio station is operating on 500 watts or 750 watts.
After having read your text, especially about frustrating and annoying DX (you are totally right!) I guess it is EXACTLY the best thing I can do RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW. And this will be the BEST decision of my lifetime which I make. To stop the FMDX immediately. Less stress.

Pls. keep my hints and ideas not as criticizm, but as a possible way to make FMLIST better.

73+55
All the best to you.
pfm907.

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