What am I hearing on 289/290 KHz?

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mediterraneandxer
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What am I hearing on 289/290 KHz?

Post by mediterraneandxer » 21 Oct 2014 14:42

Last night around 19:00-19:30 UTC I was tuning through the low bands in another vain attempt to log RTE on 252. I did catch Poland on 225 so the evening wasn't a total loss.

I heard what seems to be two distinct stations on 289 or 290 KHz. My filtering on this set only goes down to around 3 KHz so I can say with certainty it's not the 293.something listed in the schedules but it is either 289 or 290. What I heard was two men speaking but over each other constantly so I feel sure it was two stations. I couldn't identify the language but it sounded like Spanish or Greek. That's the stronger one. He was clobbering the other one so I couldn't even guess what language was being spoken.

Looking over the net it seems this is already out of the broadcast range and into air control. But these guys were chatting up a storm and it sounded more like news or sports or talk radio than utility.

Has anybody got any idea what this was?
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John Faulkner, Skegness
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Re: What am I hearing on 289/290 KHz?

Post by John Faulkner, Skegness » 21 Oct 2014 15:17

That's an unusual one. Have you checked MW List? There are quite a few low powered stations listed on both 289 and 290. Maybe one of these.

http://mwlist.org

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mediterraneandxer
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Re: What am I hearing on 289/290 KHz?

Post by mediterraneandxer » 21 Oct 2014 16:31

Thanks, I did check mwlist and WRTH. Nothing listed.

However a link from mwlist to the mw offset list does have quite a few potential candidates. The Russians are in here strongly most of the time, they'll be the first suspects.

Here's what he has listed:

Code: Select all

 289  288.995     HRV RI (Rijeka / Krk)                                                                                                     
 289  288.998     RUS WR (Chertovitskoye / Voronezh)                                                                                        
 289  289.007     RUS AP (Chertovitskoye / Vorenezh)                                                                                        
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 290  289.993     USA TVK (Centerville, IA)                                                                                                 
 290  289.997     CAN QR (Regina, SK)                                                                                                       
 290  289.998     USA AOP (Antelope Rock Springs, WY)                                                                                       
 290  289.999     FIN TP (Oulu)                                                                                                             
 290  290.000     ALB TR (Tirana / Rinas)                                                                                                   
 290  290.000     INS TF (Bandar Lampung)                                                                                                   
 290  290.002     AUT GRZ (Graz)                                                                                                            
 290  290.002     BEL ONL (Liege / Bierset)                                                                                                 
 290  290.005     CAN YYF (Penticton, BC)                                                                                                   
 290  290.007     CAN YYH (Taloyoak, NU)                                                                                                    
 290  290.007     RUS OB (Moskva/Vnukovo)                                                                                                   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 291  290.993     GRC KZN (Kozani / Filippos)          
It seems to be much harder to ID stations now in the 21st century than it did when I started. I wonder if the station with the good audio could be listed here as 291 since I have a hard time telling Spanish from Greek from Cypriot. Just logged another station from Cypress today on 603 KHz that I was sure was Spanish. Wasted a lot of time until I verified it against a live stream. I should remind myself whenever I think it's Spanish but can't understand a single word it's not Spanish.
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John Faulkner, Skegness
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Re: What am I hearing on 289/290 KHz?

Post by John Faulkner, Skegness » 21 Oct 2014 16:36

You are not the only one who has confused Spanish with Greek. While there are clear distinctions, a brief snippet of audio or lots of co-channel interference and it's not difficult to confuse the two, as I have found myself.

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Julian Hardstone
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Re: What am I hearing on 289/290 KHz?

Post by Julian Hardstone » 21 Oct 2014 16:42

Was this with one of the Tecsuns? If they're anything like the Degen 1103 the 2nd IF image at 1200kHz can be quite bad due to the rather poor roofing filter at the 1st IF

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mediterraneandxer
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Re: What am I hearing on 289/290 KHz?

Post by mediterraneandxer » 21 Oct 2014 16:58

Hi Julian, yes, the 660. I do not know but I am led to believe they are completely different designs and made by two differerent factories. I didn't understand where you were going with the comment about the problem at 1200 KHz. Would it play in this equation somehow?
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mediterraneandxer
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Re: What am I hearing on 289/290 KHz?

Post by mediterraneandxer » 21 Oct 2014 17:01

John Faulkner wrote:You are not the only one who has confused Spanish with Greek. While there are clear distinctions, a brief snippet of audio or lots of co-channel interference and it's not difficult to confuse the two, as I have found myself.
Yes, the rhythm of the speech is very similar isn't it? I have been around enough Spanish speakers from the Americas but I can't follow the Spanish Spanish. So I always wonder if I'm hearing the Queen's Spanish as it were or Greek etc. And tonight I learned the people in Cyprus sound just like the Greeks to my uneducated ears :lol:
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pe1etr
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Re: What am I hearing on 289/290 KHz?

Post by pe1etr » 22 Oct 2014 16:43

mediterraneandxer wrote:
John Faulkner wrote:You are not the only one who has confused Spanish with Greek. While there are clear distinctions, a brief snippet of audio or lots of co-channel interference and it's not difficult to confuse the two, as I have found myself.
Yes, the rhythm of the speech is very similar isn't it? I have been around enough Spanish speakers from the Americas but I can't follow the Spanish Spanish. So I always wonder if I'm hearing the Queen's Spanish as it were or Greek etc. And tonight I learned the people in Cyprus sound just like the Greeks to my uneducated ears :lol:
Greek Cypriots speak Greek (unsurprising) and turkish cypriots speak turkish. none of them speak Spanish. i hope that educates your ears? ;)

How about a recording? I can distinguish Spanish from Greek.

Peter Wilson
Somewhere on the thai/lao border

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mediterraneandxer
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Re: What am I hearing on 289/290 KHz?

Post by mediterraneandxer » 22 Oct 2014 17:05

pe1etr wrote:Greek Cypriots speak Greek (unsurprising) and turkish cypriots speak turkish. none of them speak Spanish. i hope that educates your ears? ;)
Silly me. I thought Cyprus had its own language although I didn't think for a moment it was Spanish.
pe1etr wrote:How about a recording? I can distinguish Spanish from Greek.
Thanks for the offer. I'll have to get back to you. My office is full of computer gear and the only radios I have available at the moment use internal ferrites for AM and LW. It takes more planning then it should to make a recording and upload it.
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Julian Hardstone
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Re: What am I hearing on 289/290 KHz?

Post by Julian Hardstone » 22 Oct 2014 19:01

mediterraneandxer wrote:Hi Julian, yes, the 660. I do not know but I am led to believe they are completely different designs and made by two differerent factories. I didn't understand where you were going with the comment about the problem at 1200 KHz. Would it play in this equation somehow?
The image at 2 × 455kHz above dial freq can get through the first filter in a up-conversion configuration like the 1103. The 660 is probably completely different but the point is, have you checked what you hear on 1200kHz?

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mediterraneandxer
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Re: What am I hearing on 289/290 KHz?

Post by mediterraneandxer » 22 Oct 2014 19:04

I will shortly. But we were discussing 289/290 KHz so I was confused. A 455 KHz IF would already be almost 2X higher than what I'm listening to. I would not expect images lower than that.
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mediterraneandxer
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Re: What am I hearing on 289/290 KHz?

Post by mediterraneandxer » 22 Oct 2014 19:13

No, 455, 910, and 1200 are all fine. I was copying a station on 1200 but it faded after a few minutes.

Checking quickly over some published reviews they have said the radio is notable for lack of images and spurs in a portable. The receiver is double-conversion.
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Tim Bucknall
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Re: What am I hearing on 289/290 KHz?

Post by Tim Bucknall » 22 Aug 2015 08:41

ok thats a red flag, if you heard a signal on 1200khz at 7pm you def have overload issues

before i read that i was going to say its the luxembourg effect since its strong down on LW
the audio is being superimposed on a utility signal

the interfering signal is midway between you and the ndb/utility signal that its being superimposed on

but continuing that investigation would give away your location, your call :-)

ps: i had a similar effect on Jeff Kitchings Grundig YB400 in the 289-526khz range during my visit to Northern Cyprus in 2001
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