How much does F2 propagation affect Band 2?

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Alex Cator
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How much does F2 propagation affect Band 2?

Post by Alex Cator » 29 Dec 2014 13:25

Hello,
I am interested if anyone knows if F2 propagation affects Band 2, or if not, OIRT. I have not heard about anyone get any Band 2 reception via F2, and the closest I have got to F2, and anyone else has got to F2 on Band 2, is Sporadic-E propagation.

73, Alex.
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Nick Gilly
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Re: How much does F2 propagation affect Band 2?

Post by Nick Gilly » 29 Dec 2014 13:37

Hi Alex. The highest frequency I have heard of being affected by F2 is around 70 MHz, but it was many years ago and such reception would be exceptional. I don't think the MUF would ever reach Band 2.

The only other possibility is maybe the bottom of the Japanese FM band at 76 MHz but I think that might be stretching it a bit!
Good DX.

Nick, Whitchurch, Hampshire.

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Alex Cator
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Re: How much does F2 propagation affect Band 2?

Post by Alex Cator » 29 Dec 2014 14:19

So would multi-hop F2 bring in OIRT stations from the East of Russia to the UK?
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a2c39a
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Re: How much does F2 propagation affect Band 2?

Post by a2c39a » 29 Dec 2014 19:48

Hello Alex,

Multi-hop F2 is going to propagate signals a minimum of 6000km. I think that is probably a bit too far for Russia.
Also, it is most unlikely to affect frequencies above 55MHz.

Just out of interest in what has been achieved by F2 propagation, this may be of interest:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/F2_propagation

Best wishes, John.

Tim Bucknall
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Re: How much does F2 propagation affect Band 2?

Post by Tim Bucknall » 30 Dec 2014 12:47

no chance of F2 on Band 2 but TEP is quite possible if you're in the right place http://home.iprimus.com.au/toddemslie/d ... ition.html

I presume this is what Bob Zanotti of Swiss radio actually meant when he wrongly stated on air that F2 reached band 2

personally my highest F2 reception was TV pictures on A2/E3 (55.25mhz) during the 2000/2001 solar max
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Alex Lawler
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Re: How much does F2 propagation affect Band 2?

Post by Alex Lawler » 04 Jan 2015 21:15

Were these pictures from the States Tim and how were you alerted to these pictures or were you just monitoring band 1? The reason I ask is I know HS publications used to sell a machine that alarmed when anything appeared on band 1. I had SpE pictures last year from Russia and Ukraine plus Iceland in 2012.
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Re: How much does F2 propagation affect Band 2?

Post by Tim Bucknall » 04 Jan 2015 22:28

the pictures i had were from Canada (CKCW-TV, Moncton, NB) and unknown (prob Iran) on 55.2606

during the F2 season I would have been obsessively monitoring 30-60mhz on the Icom R75 i had then, tracking the MUF all day until it hit the tv band
when i noticed carriers on TV freqs i would have switched on the tv

I seem to recall that by 2001 i may have already got pissed off with the HS pubs d100, mine drifted a lot and with the arthritis in my hands i kept losing my temper (no offence to HS pubs)

i never had the dx alarm version, i can see it would be useful if one was working at home but i would prob leave the scanner on (for example) 55.249 usb anyway or leave it squelched on an FM freq

remind me to inflict my photos of the Lviv R1 Tv transmitter on you some time :-)

my monitoring regime nowadays is pretty similar but with better equipment than i used in 2001
VHF skiplist is a great asset, people on there post alerts when the F2 is good, Dxer Jurgen Bartels posts some great stuff
http://dx.3sdesign.de/index.htm?fm_bandwith_talk.htm

obviously a lot of countries have gone qrt on Band 1 but pictures have been seen this year on F2 in the UK
luckily there are some really sickly txs in the former USSR which put out sprogs between 33 & 43mhz which will produce video when strong enough so even if the MUF doesn't hit 50mhz you may still get pictures
R1 49.750 video carriers have been logged this winter but not strong enough for video, but this season is full of surprises so who knows what may happen between now and may!
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Alex Lawler
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Re: How much does F2 propagation affect Band 2?

Post by Alex Lawler » 05 Jan 2015 05:30

Very interesting. I will keep an eye myself. I used to obsessively chase SpE tv reception. My methods were so crude that I would have R1 or R2 on all day until something occasionally popped up. Most of the time I was just acclimatised to static in the background. I guess F2 reception is potentially more exciting as the dx can be further. I've never really looked into TEP but I seem to remember Hugh Cocks receiving Brazil from his location in Portugal, at least I think I read that a few years ago.
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Re: How much does F2 propagation affect Band 2?

Post by Tim Bucknall » 05 Jan 2015 11:01

Yes Hugh is ideally placed for African & South American TEP

but i managed it on 50mhz from here on 2oth december (only a weak beacon though)
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Jim (Bournemouth)
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Re: How much does F2 propagation affect Band 2?

Post by Jim (Bournemouth) » 01 Mar 2015 11:22

During the peak of Cycle 21 (1979-82) I believe a cross band 50/70Mhz Contact was made between the Uk and Nova Scotia. the VE1 station transmitted on 6m (then unavailable to Europe) and the G station transmitted on 70Mhz.

The contact was mentioned in Radcom - I'll have to dig my copies out of the loft and see if I can find it.

Trans-equatorial propagation on Band 2 should be possible during high solar activity between southern Africa and the Mediterranean area around the equinoxes - there is an outside chance of TEP+ Es to more northern parts of Europe but would need some very early openings for the time of year, and some real luck!
Jim, Bournemouth, Dorset. IO90BR.

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satnipper
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Re: How much does F2 propagation affect Band 2?

Post by satnipper » 01 Mar 2015 11:38

Jim - Just thought I'd mention you have spelt receivers wrong in your signature.

Cheers

Stuart

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