Close Proximity Antenna Mounting: 9.2 / UHF TV Antenna

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John Faulkner, Skegness
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Close Proximity Antenna Mounting: 9.2 / UHF TV Antenna

Post by John Faulkner, Skegness » 23 Feb 2017 18:02

As you may have read elsewhere, we have just switched from Sky to TalkTalk. Yes, I know that was a daft move, but this was done purely to reduce the monthly bills thanks to Sky's ridiculous price hike.

Now I have to install a UHF TV antenna for Freeview and I will probably put this on the mast immediately below the Korner 9.2 as a quick temporary fix. Problem is, this (wideband) UHF antenna is going to be 30cm or so from the bottom of the 9.2. This is surely bound to have an effect on the pattern of the 9.2 I wondered how much. "Severely" or "not a lot"? An impossible thing to answer too, but I am going to try this to see if I can inject some quirkiness into the 9.2's pattern for meteor scatter purposes. If it helps me to find new null on Belmont and Tacolneston signals then it will be interesting to see what pops up on the frequency. I still need 98.3.

Any thoughts or comments welcome.

Peter Körner
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Re: Close Proximity Antenna Mounting: 9.2 / UHF TV Antenna

Post by Peter Körner » 23 Feb 2017 19:57

As long as boom of the UHF antenna is in parallel with the 9.2, the influence is negligable, since the elements of the UHF antenna are much shorter than those of the 9.2.
Maximum influence can be expected if the booms are perpendicular, but it depends on the size and proximity of the UHF antenna.
These things can be simulated...

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John Faulkner, Skegness
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Re: Close Proximity Antenna Mounting: 9.2 / UHF TV Antenna

Post by John Faulkner, Skegness » 23 Feb 2017 21:57

Thank you very much for this information, Peter. It's an unusual question, but I cannot wait to try this. I should have the TV antenna on the mast at some point tomorrow. I had to postpone doing this today because of today's stormy weather.

I will take a photograph of this once it's done, then I will report anything unusual.

Since the UHF TV antenna is tuned to a different frequency, I guessed the interaction would be minimal, but we will see.

Many thanks again.

John J Cahill
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Re: Close Proximity Antenna Mounting: 9.2 / UHF TV Antenna

Post by John J Cahill » 24 Feb 2017 13:27

Hi John
Do have a satellite dish already installed? If so are not the free view channel available free on the sky boxes?

JJ

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John Faulkner, Skegness
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Re: Close Proximity Antenna Mounting: 9.2 / UHF TV Antenna

Post by John Faulkner, Skegness » 24 Feb 2017 15:39

Hi John.

They are indeed, but we are unable to use the subscription facilities now we are not taking Sky: Record, pause, rewind, On Demand, etc. We hardly ever watch live TV.

The TalkTalk 'YouView' box has all those facilities vie Freeview. Plus I will probably take the hard drive out of the Sky box. We have two. One will be used in another room just for the freeview channels, so we will probably keep the dish up for that.

Tangent time: We only ever used to use the catch-up services and so legally didn't require a TV licence. Even so, the Barstewards Broadcasting Corporation took us to court as they said we needed a licence. We were ordered to attend Grantham Magistrates Court. They scummy barstewards lost. Now, unfortunately, the licence is required for catch-up/on-demand. I wish somebody would get rid of the corrupt BBC. Makes my blood boil. Sorry, tangential rant over.

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Re: Close Proximity Antenna Mounting: 9.2 / UHF TV Antenna

Post by John J Cahill » 24 Feb 2017 19:18

I am with you as regards the licence here in Ireland if you have a TV you are required to have a licence for the location where the TV is, if I moved house I'd have get another licence for the second location. It doesn't matter if you have reception or not. Which is the case since the change over to digital a good number of people have no reception via an aerial.

The record facility should still work on the sky box.

JJ

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John Faulkner, Skegness
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Re: Close Proximity Antenna Mounting: 9.2 / UHF TV Antenna

Post by John Faulkner, Skegness » 24 Feb 2017 19:59

Our sky box does not record now. I guess they have changed things recently as I seem to remember the box would still record after 'disconnection' at one time.

The licence is one big scam. I guess it will be scrapped one day, but that won't be in a hurry.

If the BBC were providing a proper 'public service', which they say they are and which I feel I can justifiably prove that they most certainly are not, then it would probably be worth paying a fee of some sort, but not the extortionate £145.50 that it is today.

I ranted: http://skegnessdx.blogspot.co.uk/2014/1 ... cence.html

Ranting aside, I installed, OK, 'bodged' the TV antenna into place this afternoon because I didn't manage to get it done before dark, so I will have to finish off tomorrow. The interesting thing is that having the antenna clear of objects, pointing towards Belmont, which is line of sight here, the Freeview scan only found 60 channels. Yet with the same wideband 15 element antenna inside the bungalow, hanging out of the loft and pointing down to the floor, the scan found 117 channels!

When I finish off tomorrow, I might just leave the antenna beaming into the continent. When I did a scan in this position earlier, the TV was still able to lock onto 10 channels and these included all the main ones we would watch anyway. i.e. BBC1, ITV1 and channels 4/5. We don't watch anything else really, though I would find Dave appealing. Not for Top Gear though. Can't stand that.

Nothing continental was received, btw.

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Re: Close Proximity Antenna Mounting: 9.2 / UHF TV Antenna

Post by Andrew Webster,Wigan » 24 Feb 2017 20:28

Regarding Sky boxes I inherited two when my uncle went to Sky Q and they would record until the cards were switched off now they won't record but OK for viewing FTA channels.

Andy
Receiving equipment: 2 Sony ST-S311, 1 Sony ST-SE520, 1 Sony ST-SE700 2 crossed FM 5s rotatable, 1 homemade FM 3 horizontal beaming S/E, 1 vertical FM 3 fixed beaming at Ireland, 2 element band 1.

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John Faulkner, Skegness
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Re: Close Proximity Antenna Mounting: 9.2 / UHF TV Antenna

Post by John Faulkner, Skegness » 26 Feb 2017 17:39

DSCF2519.JPG
UHF antenna is about 20 cm below the 9.2 reflectors when vertical and about 10 cm above the top of that part of the roof

DSCF2520.JPG
Close-up of black bung, indicating wideband antenna

It's not ideal, but it's just a temporary situation for now. The idea was to quickly install a UHF Freeview antenna.

The effect it has had is more noticeable on the TV reception than on the FM reception!

So far, I cannot detect any difference in the performance of the 9.2. But the TV reception is just odd.

* When I point the TV antenna towards Belmont, there are 47 or 60 stations available from the Belmont transmitter itself. Nothing else. BBC1 is weak and intermittent. That would suit me fine, but my wife wants BBC1 for great soaps such as Deadenders. Sorry, Eastenders. (Groan!)

* When I point the TV antenna out to sea, approximately east-south-east (You see what I am doing? ;) ), reception is the same, but BBC1 is fine.

* The Freeview signal is coming in at 42% with a 100% quality figure. When I rotate the 9.2, the Freeview signal drops to 39% and quality drops to 90%. TV reception is unaffected.

* The only time I had a full signal was when the antenna was hanging out of the loft, pointing to the floor! All 117 channels were received then!

* Lifting it up and pointing it towards Belmont lost all signal, as did putting it in the loft.

I didn't check the signal strength and quality with the antenna beamed towards Belmont, but it was pointless.

I was glad to get this whole thing done as quickly as possible. The rain prevented me from progressing yesterday, but today was bright, but with a strong breeze.

My fear of heights got the better of me. Even so, I managed to get on the sixth rung of the steps to nudge the TV antenna higher, then clamp it tight. I was shaking like a leaf!

So, I consider that's done, but why the strange reception characteristics of the antenna? Pointing at Belmont, which is line of sight and 'visible', though 30 or so miles away, should have given better reception, so you would have thought. But then, the east coast of Lincolnshire is notoriously poor for reception of the services it *should* receive.

I also get to see what might come in from the continent during lift conditions.

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