Where can you buy MuRata 80 kHz filters?

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Alex Cator
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Where can you buy MuRata 80 kHz filters?

Post by Alex Cator » 30 Jan 2015 22:07

I found some MuRata SFE10.7MHY 110 kHz filters on eBay, which I would like to use three of, for the wide positions in my Sony ST-SB920.
I would like to use one MuRata SFE10.7MTE 80 kHz filter, for the narrow position in my Sony ST-SB920, which I will modify soon for optimum performance, I mean so much better than the performance it is distributed with. The filter quantity doesn't matter, as I will buy a Kenwood KT-6040 (and, of course, modify it with narrower filters) in the future. I will get the 110s on eBay, but could you please help me with a place to get the 80s. The 80s are not on eBay.

Cheers,
Alexander 'Alex' Cator
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daveB
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Re: Where can you buy MuRata 80 kHz filters?

Post by daveB » 31 Jan 2015 12:52

Hi Alex,

I think you may have some difficulty - I couldn't find a stockist a few months ago. It looks to me as if the entire stock of discrete filters is drying up - so purchase them ASAP. You might like to look at this article: https://fmradiodx.wordpress.com/2013/11 ... w-filters/ as it discusses choosing filters for the best symmetry. That becomes more important as bandwidth is narrowed.

Have you considered that you will lose RDS sensitivity when you narrow the bandwidth? My personal experience with a Yamaha TX-930 shows that with two 150 kHz in the wide position and two 110 kHz in the narrow position there is a significant loss of sensitivity. I own a couple of SB920's also fitted with narrower filters and I actually never run them in wide mode because,as you know, you have to push buttons and twiddle the tuning knob to change form wide to narrow. You can work around that by setting one preset up which has been set for wideband and another set for narrow and - but in the end I haven't bothered.

I would suggest buying a few 150kHz filters as well as 110kHz - in case you find that all 110kHz filters are too narrow. And maybe you will find a source with some 80 kHz filters.

Regards
David
SDRPlay, AirSpyMini, RTL dongles, SB920s, Yamaha TX930. 5 ele compact yagi on rotator at 18ft agl. FM5 facing east, FM5 facing south, FM3 facing NE, OIRT dipole, 3-ele Moxon vertical facing east.

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Julian Hardstone
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Re: Where can you buy MuRata 80 kHz filters?

Post by Julian Hardstone » 31 Jan 2015 13:22

There's no point fitting an 80 in a SB920 unless you rebuild one or more of the IF stages to reduce the leakage past the filter.
I found this out when I tried: see https://uk.groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ ... opics/2705

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a2c39a
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Re: Where can you buy MuRata 80 kHz filters?

Post by a2c39a » 31 Jan 2015 13:36

Hello Alex,

As Dave says, 80s can be a bit difficult to find. Mine came from Israel and were quite expensive compared to other 10.7MHz ceramic filters.
I will let you know if I come across a supplier.

With regard to wider filters, it is not only the 3dB bandwidth that is important but also the steepness of the passband sides.
If you use 10.7JA or 10.7JB 150kHz filters (do not use other 150s they can have very poor performance), they have less loss than 10.7H 110kHz, filters and much steeper sides to the pass band. This means that the adjacent channel rejection is almost as good as with 110s, the receiver sensitivity is better, RDS is better and the sound fidelity is better.
This page has a table and has lots of generally interesting filter information:
The FM Ceramic Filter Page

However, you do need 80s for digging out the weak signals between stronger ones when DXing.

Best wishes,
John.

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Re: Where can you buy MuRata 80 kHz filters?

Post by daveB » 31 Jan 2015 21:04

Alex,
In your original post you said you planned to buy a KT-6040. Check e-bay now - you may get a bargain.

David
SDRPlay, AirSpyMini, RTL dongles, SB920s, Yamaha TX930. 5 ele compact yagi on rotator at 18ft agl. FM5 facing east, FM5 facing south, FM3 facing NE, OIRT dipole, 3-ele Moxon vertical facing east.

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Re: Where can you buy MuRata 80 kHz filters?

Post by Alex Cator » 31 Jan 2015 21:10

Don't think so: It's a bid. I only like buy it now, as what if someone else wins it and I bid a high amount of money, then wasted.
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Re: Where can you buy MuRata 80 kHz filters?

Post by Alex Cator » 31 Jan 2015 21:41

a2c39a wrote:Hello Alex,

As Dave says, 80s can be a bit difficult to find. Mine came from Israel and were quite expensive compared to other 10.7MHz ceramic filters.
I will let you know if I come across a supplier.

With regard to wider filters, it is not only the 3dB bandwidth that is important but also the steepness of the passband sides.
If you use 10.7JA or 10.7JB 150kHz filters (do not use other 150s they can have very poor performance), they have less loss than 10.7H 110kHz, filters and much steeper sides to the pass band. This means that the adjacent channel rejection is almost as good as with 110s, the receiver sensitivity is better, RDS is better and the sound fidelity is better.
This page has a table and has lots of generally interesting filter information:
The FM Ceramic Filter Page

However, you do need 80s for digging out the weak signals between stronger ones when DXing.

Best wishes,
John.
Both my Sony ST-SB920 (which I own currently) and my Kenwood KT-6040 (which I will buy in the future, as I don't have one currently) will have the option (while modified) of 110 or 80, or, in the Kenwood's case, the option of 110 only, 110 and 80, and 80 only.

These will be my new filter arrangements:

Sony ST-SB920:
Wide 1: 110 kHz (MuRata SFE10.7MHY)
Wide 2: 110 kHz (MuRata SFE10.7MHY)
Wide 3: 110 kHz (MuRata SFE10.7MHY)
Narrow: 80 kHz (MuRata SFE10.7MTE)

Wide setting: Wide 1 + Wide 2 + Wide 3 (110 kHz)
Narrow setting: Narrow on its own (80 kHz)


Kenwood KT-6040:
Filters 1 and 2: 110 kHz (MuRata SFE10.7MHY)
Filters 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8: 80 kHz (MuRata SFE10.7MTE)

Wide setting: Filters 1 and 2 (2 x 110 kHz)
Normal setting: Filters 1, 2, 3 and 4 (2 x 110 kHz, 2 x 80 kHz)
Narrow setting: Filters 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8 (6 x 80 kHz)

Do you think the filter combinations on the ST-SB920 and KT-6040 are ideal for DXing? Do you think other combinations will do better? The SB920 combination is from Oliver Blackburn (think that's his name) in Wakefield, West Yorkshire, and it works well for him. The 6040 combination is my own, with my knowledge of the filter combinations in the different settings, thanks to Todd Emslie in Sydney, New South Wales, Australia, for the setting combinations. As the KT-6040 combo is mine, could I please have a little help, as many people on this forum are far more experienced DXers than me, because I'm just a teenage boy (a very young DXer). Thanks very much if one can help me find a better IF filter combination for the 6040! :)
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satnipper
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Re: Where can you buy MuRata 80 kHz filters?

Post by satnipper » 31 Jan 2015 21:55

"Don't think so: It's a bid. I only like buy it now, as what if someone else wins it and I bid a high amount of money, then wasted."

Eh? What exactly is wasted?

You want 80 kHz Murata send an email to Fabrizio at fabrizio58it@yahoo.it - last time I bought some 3 years ago they were €5 a pop plus p&p - pay by Paypal. Honestly though you are wasting your money modding analogue tuners. Buy a £10 rtlsdr dongle from cosycave https://www.cosycave.co.uk/category.php?id_category=61 and use SDR Console or SDR# and it will easily outperform the analogue tuner for selectivity. If you are not in an urban location where you could get overload (and the £299 FM+ suffers from urban overload) you are good to go.

Stuart

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Re: Where can you buy MuRata 80 kHz filters?

Post by Alex Cator » 31 Jan 2015 22:15

satnipper wrote:"Don't think so: It's a bid. I only like buy it now, as what if someone else wins it and I bid a high amount of money, then wasted."

Eh? What exactly is wasted?

You want 80 kHz Murata send an email to Fabrizio at fabrizio58it@yahoo.it - last time I bought some 3 years ago they were €5 a pop plus p&p - pay by Paypal. Honestly though you are wasting your money modding analogue tuners. Buy a £10 rtlsdr dongle from cosycave https://www.cosycave.co.uk/category.php?id_category=61 and use SDR Console or SDR# and it will easily outperform the analogue tuner for selectivity. If you are not in an urban location where you could get overload (and the £299 FM+ suffers from urban overload) you are good to go.

Stuart
I think that I would be wasting money if I bid £100 for a tuner at about 30 seconds from end of bid, and someone else bids £170.99 for it at 10 seconds from end of bid. Unless there's a refund, of course. What analogue tuners do you own? Could you please, during a tropo opening towards the continent, do a recording of reception, on both the RTL-SDR and your best analogue tuner. Make sure you use the same antenna setup with the SDR and the analogue tuner. That would be very helpful, if you could please be so kind to do that.
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Re: Where can you buy MuRata 80 kHz filters?

Post by Alex Cator » 31 Jan 2015 22:31

In addition, I am not in an urban location, I am in a rural/suburban (don't know which is to catagorise a large village) location. To be more exact, East Harling, a large village in the Breckland district of Norfolk. I do have a very strong local BBC national/Classic FM transmitter (also transmits DAB and DVB-T in addition to FM) called Tacolneston (5 x 250kW) that has created overload catastrophes on several of my receivers. The Onkyo T-4970 gets weak Tacolneston overload (all transmissions simultaneously, but BBC R1 most obviously) on 103.7, but France Inter could get over it. The Vizion MP4 player has a very deaf (selectivity not best either, but not barn door) FM radio, and that can get Tacolneston (and Ipswich/Mendlesham) overload on many frequencies, including some Japanese frequencies, and Tacolneston overload has occurred on 106.4 (to knock out Kiss from Ipswich/Mendlesham) in some locations. My HTC One X (Android) smartphone has quite a good FM radio, but it doesn't quite beat some Sony-Ericsson phone radios, and that gets combined Tacolneston overload on 87.5. That phone radio was once good enough to get Egem (perhaps Sint Pieters Leeuw as well) at home via tropo. The Roberts classic radio (forgot model number) gets overload on many frequencies.
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Re: Where can you buy MuRata 80 kHz filters?

Post by satnipper » 31 Jan 2015 23:17

You do not understand how auctions and eBay works. When you make a bid you make a promise to pay if yours is the winning bid. You pay nothing at the time. You only pay if yours is the eventual winning bid. The way you pick up bargains is by bidding - not by BIN.

My analogue tuners are not in-line. My rtlsdr dongles (R820T/E4000), Elad FDM-S2 and FM+ are in-line. Once you have tried digital you do not go back to analogue.

Stuart

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Julian Hardstone
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Re: Where can you buy MuRata 80 kHz filters?

Post by Julian Hardstone » 01 Feb 2015 02:25

Choose a maximum price you'd be willing to pay, bid that, then let it go if someone outbids you, 'you've nothing to lose' :-)

Anyway, there's no point worrying about fitting 80s in an SB920, I've tried it and took it out

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Re: Where can you buy MuRata 80 kHz filters?

Post by Alex Cator » 01 Feb 2015 13:27

Julian Hardstone wrote: Anyway, there's no point worrying about fitting 80s in an SB920, I've tried it and took it out
Do you mean that 80s don't work well in an SB920? If then so, the wide filters will be 150 and the narrow filter will be a 110. Both can be got very cheaply off eBay.
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Re: Where can you buy MuRata 80 kHz filters?

Post by Julian Hardstone » 01 Feb 2015 15:17

Yes that would be quite sensible.
btw if you read my post of Sat Jan 31, 2015 1:22 pm, above, you may get some more information on this. Unfortunately the new Yahoo blog format does not readily show the replies to my post in March 2010
- Julian

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Re: Where can you buy MuRata 80 kHz filters?

Post by daveB » 01 Feb 2015 17:43

Hi Alex,

I reckon your head must be spinning with all the advice. But a couple of points
first: with the Sony ST-SB920 in narrow mode it adds a fourth IF stage so narrow mode is F1+F2+F3+F4.
second: you only get 50kHz steps with the Sony - so if you fit an 80KHz filter that is not spot on 10.7MHz you might be disappointed
THIRD: when you carefully un-solder the existing filter use solder braid rather than a solder sucker as you are less likely to damage the printed circuit track. And a wooden cocktail stick is a nice pointy device for poking into the vacant hole to keep it free from solder.
FOURTH: Replace the filters with Single In Line (SIL) sockets (cheap on e-bay) that way you can buy a handful of 150 KHz and 110 KHz filters and try whether all 110's is better than, say, 2x150+2x110 which is a combination I use. Then if you ever get hold of one or more 80kHz filters it will be dead easy to swop them out. First tuner I modified I hard-soldered in the new filters - so daren't change them again in case I damage a track by repeated de-soldering/soldering.

As for an RTL dongle outperforming an analogue tuner - that is debatable as they easily suffer strong signal overload - but buying a £10 dongle is a brilliant way of finding out the potential of SDR radio especially in terms of selectivity and fine tuning. Once you have tried the possibilities you may want to drop the idea of buying a KT-6040 and save your pennies to buy an affordable SDR - maybe an SDRPlay.

BTW - from what you write I started DX-ing at a hobby at about your age on the SW/Amateur bands using a Marconi CR-100 (go on "google" it) longer ago than I carry to admit.

Rgds

David
SDRPlay, AirSpyMini, RTL dongles, SB920s, Yamaha TX930. 5 ele compact yagi on rotator at 18ft agl. FM5 facing east, FM5 facing south, FM3 facing NE, OIRT dipole, 3-ele Moxon vertical facing east.

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Re: Where can you buy MuRata 80 kHz filters?

Post by John Faulkner, Skegness » 02 Feb 2015 00:33

... and carrying it was next to impossible too! I used to have a CR100/2, previously owned by Chris Thatcher. It was an excellent radio. Happy memories coming back now. I think this information could be used in an interesting new thread.

Alex, you might do very well with a dongle in your location. I know you complain about being close to Stoke Holy Cross, Cambridge, Peterborough, etc. but your band is relatively empty compared to most other places in the UK. Apart from Tacolneston, which I dare say could be a problem, you might find that dongle works very well indeed. Definitely worth a try, as Dave says, and you won't have lost much money if it does overload. I got mine from a Chinese seller for £3 and no postage costs. I am looking at mine and I can't remember the chipset in mine, but there is one type which is better than the others. Can anybody remember if it is the FC01 variety? My memory, er ..... I should know this but I have forgotten.

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Re: Where can you buy MuRata 80 kHz filters?

Post by Alex Cator » 02 Feb 2015 12:36

I want to own an RTL-SDR dongle. If I want to go to Lowestoft, then I do think it would just be so much easier to take a computer and a dongle, than an analogue tuner. The XDR-F1HD series (including my XDR-S10HDiP) are also easier than analogue tuners, as the analogue tuners can be the same size as VHS and Betamax machines, and the XDRs are so much smaller. Only thing is, how would I get my Triax FM3 (which is currently not assembled yet) in the car to Lowestoft? I know that you have took an FM5 on various DX trips in the car, so, which is the easiest way to take it on such a journey?
NOTE: You would not expect me to be on the forum at this time. I would normally be at school, but I am ill with a cold virus, and I'm at home today, so I don't give my virus to anyone else in the school. It's not that serious, so I hope to be back at school tomorrow! :)
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Re: Where can you buy MuRata 80 kHz filters?

Post by satnipper » 02 Feb 2015 12:52

SDR# will show the tuner chip used - typically E4000 or R820T. There are no effective differences for Band II dxers (R820T tunes down to 22 Mhz, E4000 around 52 Mhz). Looks like there is a new R820T2 chip. Buy from Cosy Cave and you wont go wrong.

At my rural Carcassonne QTH a dongle performs as well as the Perseus FM+ with no overloading. In the smoke both overload to more or less the same extent. The only advantage of the FM+ in my opinion is its GUI is superior for workflow to SDR# or SDR Console. However it's not superior by over thirty times which is the price differential.

I'm not a band II dxer but in my experience the two best Band II rigs are the Sony XDR and the Elad FDM-S2 in that order. They also cost hundreds of pounds each. Take the advice you have been given here and get a dongle - can't imagine any overloading issues in Norfolk and it will walk all over a modded 920. You will need to install the zadig driver exactly as it should be installed else the dongle wont work - plenty of web sites showing you how to do this. And start with SDR# -it's the simplest and easiest app to use.

Stuart

ps
You loosen the element to boom screws on the twig and fold flat (ish) for transport.

pps
Don't breathe on your computer - I'm just recovering from bad cold myself and don't want to catch anything else!

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Re: Where can you buy MuRata 80 kHz filters?

Post by Alex Cator » 02 Feb 2015 13:08

Thank goodness that my new antenna will be a Korner 9.2, which is highly directional, and should reduce Tacolneston down to between 25 and 50 dB if I do not point towards it. Using the Korner, the Tacolneston signals will not be strong enough for overload. John Faulkner and Nick Gilly already use Korner 9.2 antennae.
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Re: Where can you buy MuRata 80 kHz filters?

Post by Alex Cator » 02 Feb 2015 13:10

Tacolneston is close in direction to some of Scandinavia, so I will always use the XDR for ES and tropospheric ducting (and, of course, meteor scatter) from that area. Cannot wait for the ES season - had some great ES catches last year.
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