MS technique questions

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jotagarzon
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MS technique questions

Post by jotagarzon »

Hi,
I want to say sorry if this has been already posted before. I am a newcomer to this DX techinque and I have a few questions to ask...

1. Coul we classify the MS reflected waves? I find words like 'ping', 'burst', 'echo',... I understand the meaning of the words for sure, but which is the lenght of each? Which are their features? How can I separate them?
2. How can I log MS activity in case of getting no ID at all? For instance... "I had a 3 h session with 12 pings, 4 burst and so on"?
3. These two days back I got three corrupted PI codes. Is this usual? Is there a way to dig the correct PI using the 'bad' ones?
4. Which is better, recording just one empty frequency with a narrow bandwidth, eg. 500 kHz? Or perhaps better a wider span with one, two, three, six MHz, and then searching carefully the obtained I/Q? Which is the most productive choice?
5. Which is the best antenna to use, or at least, which is the best position for the antenna? "Omni vs yagi", "Horizontal vs vertical". Why don't use parabolic antennas, or a wide reflector on the roof surface with a 1/2 or 3/4 wl vertical element in the center?
... and 6. I heard about MeteorScatter, PlaneScatter, TropoScatter... but, is there a kind of "LightningScatter"?. I mean, the track left for a Lightning is highly ionized. Does it offer any DXing choice when storms are going on?

Well, I say sorry for such amount of ignorance put together, but I am curious to get the best practical knowledge together with the rest of the folks here!

¡Saludos! (73!)
Jorge
Jorge Garzón. EB7EFA / EA1036 SWL
IN83ag Cantabria (Spain) / 43°15'N • 3°56'W
--
Rx: RSP1A/AirSpy HF+/Lowe HF 150/Sony SA3-ES-EE
Ant.: Fanfare FM-2G/Wellbrook 1530LN/5el SKT Yagi
Blog: http://iberiadx.wordpress.com

daveB
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Joined: 07 Oct 2014 16:49

Re: MS technique questions

Post by daveB »

Recording 6, 8, or even 10 MHz is best as some meteors will produce a reflection on many frequencies. This is one snapshot from the Perseids in August 2015. It shows a strong burst lasting about 90 seconds with short bursts before and after. The range covered is 87.5 - 94.5
PerseidsMeteorShower-2015-08-13-Megaburst.jpg
At other times there may be a short 'ping' that affects just one or two frequencies in the band. You can that in the attached screen shot near the bottom right - an isolated ping around 94.0 MHz.

Personally, once the initial excitement of receiving signals via meteor scatter wore off, I decided to concentrate on the main showers as it takes too long to trawl through recordings.

Despite the impressive visual appearance of the burst with every available frequency showing signals only five frequencies from the 90 second burst resulted in RDS identification. And only two on the shorter burst two minutes earlier.
Location: Sittingbourne, Kent JO01ji
SDRPlay, AirSpyMini, RTL dongles, ST311, Yamaha TX930. 5 ele yagi 20ft agl - 70 deg. FM5 - 80 deg, 5.1 Yagi 16ft agl - 120 degFM5 -180 deg. Vert 3-ele Moxon - 80 deg. Shielded magnetic loop 0.1-200 MHz - 10 ft agl

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jotagarzon
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Re: MS technique questions

Post by jotagarzon »

I see Dave,
But the matter then is... How can I revisite that wide span without consuming a whole day, going up and down to each empty fx and staying there for the whole recording time?
This morning I recorded 1 MHz span (90min) and after two hours and a half I am still revisiting some of the frequencies. I am still finding pings in some of them, but not in the adjacent one!

¡Saludos!
Jorge Garzón. EB7EFA / EA1036 SWL
IN83ag Cantabria (Spain) / 43°15'N • 3°56'W
--
Rx: RSP1A/AirSpy HF+/Lowe HF 150/Sony SA3-ES-EE
Ant.: Fanfare FM-2G/Wellbrook 1530LN/5el SKT Yagi
Blog: http://iberiadx.wordpress.com

daveB
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Joined: 07 Oct 2014 16:49

Re: MS technique questions

Post by daveB »

How can I revisite that wide span without consuming a whole day, going up and down to each empty fx and staying there for the whole recording time?
What SDR hardware do you use?

You can use SDR# software with the FilePlayer plug-in from rtl-sdr.ru to play back I/Q files from a number of SDR programs. Then when you play it back you can set it up to show the waterfall spectrum - this is how I got the photo I showed you. Then just play back the short period that shows the meteor ping or burst.

And yes you can spend a lot of time playing back I/Q files. Wait until you get an 8 hour Es opening I'm still processing files from 27 Aug 2019! There is only so much you can give to a hobby so you have to be selective - that is why I only monitor the major MS showers.
Location: Sittingbourne, Kent JO01ji
SDRPlay, AirSpyMini, RTL dongles, ST311, Yamaha TX930. 5 ele yagi 20ft agl - 70 deg. FM5 - 80 deg, 5.1 Yagi 16ft agl - 120 degFM5 -180 deg. Vert 3-ele Moxon - 80 deg. Shielded magnetic loop 0.1-200 MHz - 10 ft agl

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jotagarzon
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Re: MS technique questions

Post by jotagarzon »

It is very logic Dave! Thanks for the tip. I use SDR Console most of the times and from time to time ELAD SW2, but I am not get used to as it is not very intuitive.

And yes, I have still Gb's of summer 2019 Es-skips I/Q not yet checked!!!!

Saludos
Jorge
Jorge Garzón. EB7EFA / EA1036 SWL
IN83ag Cantabria (Spain) / 43°15'N • 3°56'W
--
Rx: RSP1A/AirSpy HF+/Lowe HF 150/Sony SA3-ES-EE
Ant.: Fanfare FM-2G/Wellbrook 1530LN/5el SKT Yagi
Blog: http://iberiadx.wordpress.com

pe1etr
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Location: Near Lobatse, Botswana

Re: MS technique questions

Post by pe1etr »

Hello Jorge and all.
When looking for Meteor Scatter live, I prefer to use SDR Console V2.3. This has a de facto "meteor scatter mode". One can set a buffer of up to 30 seconds (I use 10 seconds), chose a folder, the all you need to do when you see a meteor burst is click the red record button. The settings are retained, and a unique file name is generated automatically. (SDR Console V3 does not have this facility).
As long as I click the red record button within 10 seconds of the meteor burst appearing in the sonogram (waterfall) the whole burst is recorded. When you are sure the burst has ended you click the stop button. Only the actual meteor burst is recorded and a few seconds extra, so I don't have GB of files to review. I monitor either 6MHz or 2MHz of spectrum.
Unfortunately V2.3 is obsolete and support for newer hardware is not added. The SDRplay RSP1 is supported, but I'm not sure about SDRplay RSP1A nor the Elad as I don't have these. The Airspy HF+ Discovery is not supported.
Peter
Botswana

pe1etr
Posts: 2159
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Re: MS technique questions

Post by pe1etr »

pe1etr wrote:
08 Apr 2020 16:38
Hello Jorge and all.
When looking for Meteor Scatter live, I prefer to use SDR Console V2.3. This has a de facto "meteor scatter mode". One can set a buffer of up to 30 seconds (I use 10 seconds), chose a folder, the all you need to do when you see a meteor burst is click the red record button. The settings are retained, and a unique file name is generated automatically. (SDR Console V3 does not have this facility).
As long as I click the red record button within 10 seconds of the meteor burst appearing in the sonogram (waterfall) the whole burst is recorded. When you are sure the burst has ended you click the stop button. Only the actual meteor burst is recorded and a few seconds extra, so I don't have GB of files to review. I monitor either 6MHz or 2MHz of spectrum.
Unfortunately V2.3 is obsolete and support for newer hardware is not added. The SDRplay RSP1 is supported, but I'm not sure about SDRplay RSP1A nor the Elad as I don't have these. The Airspy HF+ Discovery is not supported.
Peter
Botswana
I checked and there is support for the Elad S1/S2 in SDR Console V2.3.
V2.3 IQ files are compatible with SDR Console V3 and more interestingly with SDR# /fileplayer and hence RDS Spy.
Peter

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jotagarzon
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Re: MS technique questions

Post by jotagarzon »

Thank you you Peter,
I asked Simon for the possibility to put the buffer recording feature back to Console v3. As you pointed out, it is essential for Meteor DX.
I have been using SDRPlay RSP1A for k-serpentids. In the quiet rural place where I live, sensitivity is a plus with no front-end overloading at all. I would have to add a preamp to my ELAD FDM-S2 receiver to equal the RSP1A. Which receive-system are you using?
Somebody told me to use SDR$# with RDSSpy as Console software can't address MPX files to the plug-in.
Any advice on this?
73
J
Jorge Garzón. EB7EFA / EA1036 SWL
IN83ag Cantabria (Spain) / 43°15'N • 3°56'W
--
Rx: RSP1A/AirSpy HF+/Lowe HF 150/Sony SA3-ES-EE
Ant.: Fanfare FM-2G/Wellbrook 1530LN/5el SKT Yagi
Blog: http://iberiadx.wordpress.com

pe1etr
Posts: 2159
Joined: 07 Oct 2014 00:40
Location: Near Lobatse, Botswana

Re: MS technique questions

Post by pe1etr »

jotagarzon wrote:
09 Apr 2020 15:09
Thank you you Peter,
I asked Simon for the possibility to put the buffer recording feature back to Console v3. As you pointed out, it is essential for Meteor DX.
I have been using SDRPlay RSP1A for k-serpentids. In the quiet rural place where I live, sensitivity is a plus with no front-end overloading at all. I would have to add a preamp to my ELAD FDM-S2 receiver to equal the RSP1A. Which receive-system are you using?
Somebody told me to use SDR$# with RDSSpy as Console software can't address MPX files to the plug-in.
Any advice on this?
73
J
You're welcome Jorge.
Don't know where you got the info from about the kappa-serpentids, but it was incorrect. The next meteor shower is the Lyrids which peak on 22nd April at 07:00 UTC. The K-Serpentids are a minor shower with a ZHR of only 4, the Lyrids have a ZHR of 16-22 most years.
I use an MSi.SDR (same chipset as the SDRplay RSP1) with SDR Console V2.3, and an Airspy HF+ Discovery with SDR#.
Only SDR#, HDSDR and Elad FDM-SW2 can use an MPX output to RDS Spy.
Peter

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jotagarzon
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Re: MS technique questions

Post by jotagarzon »

Don't know where you got the info from about the kappa-serpentids, but it was incorrect. The next meteor shower is the Lyrids which peak on 22nd April at 07:00 UTC. The K-Serpentids are a minor shower with a ZHR of only 4
Hi,
Yes, the k-serpentids are already over and are a minor one. If I said something different I was wrong, obviously. I use an app called "Meteor Shower Calendar" linked with Sky Map. I also read that now is running the Virginids, another minor shower with a ZHR of 4.

I recorded a mix of pings and burst under the 'k-serpentids' that can be seen here:

https://youtu.be/Gfz5FGRANQ8

Even being 'a minor one' some of the burst were 'big enough' to be recognized.

I have ELAD SW2 software so I will try to check RDSSpy.in the near future. BTW there is a new beta version of it. It seems to be very stable but not yet finished.
Stay safe!
J
Jorge Garzón. EB7EFA / EA1036 SWL
IN83ag Cantabria (Spain) / 43°15'N • 3°56'W
--
Rx: RSP1A/AirSpy HF+/Lowe HF 150/Sony SA3-ES-EE
Ant.: Fanfare FM-2G/Wellbrook 1530LN/5el SKT Yagi
Blog: http://iberiadx.wordpress.com

pe1etr
Posts: 2159
Joined: 07 Oct 2014 00:40
Location: Near Lobatse, Botswana

Re: MS technique questions

Post by pe1etr »

jotagarzon wrote:
10 Apr 2020 08:20
Don't know where you got the info from about the kappa-serpentids, but it was incorrect. The next meteor shower is the Lyrids which peak on 22nd April at 07:00 UTC. The K-Serpentids are a minor shower with a ZHR of only 4
Hi,
Yes, the k-serpentids are already over and are a minor one. If I said something different I was wrong, obviously. I use an app called "Meteor Shower Calendar" linked with Sky Map. I also read that now is running the Virginids, another minor shower with a ZHR of 4.

I recorded a mix of pings and burst under the 'k-serpentids' that can be seen here:

https://youtu.be/Gfz5FGRANQ8

Even being 'a minor one' some of the burst were 'big enough' to be recognized.

I have ELAD SW2 software so I will try to check RDSSpy.in the near future. BTW there is a new beta version of it. It seems to be very stable but not yet finished.
Stay safe!
J
My point was you were more likely to have received those bursts via random meteors. I use the calendar from www.imo.net

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jotagarzon
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Re: MS technique questions

Post by jotagarzon »

My point was you were more likely to have received those bursts via random meteors. I use the calendar from www.imo.net
That's interesting Peter! Perhaps they are random meteoroids, but actually all of them are, aren't they?

The fact that we link them with the constellation name is more trying to classify them in an easier way for the public. It's easier to announce "Don't miss the Lyrids shower, so point your cameras/binoculars to Lyrae constellation and share your observations" that saying "Please, as the Earth's orbit is crossing the G1 Thatcher comet debris, please help us to record the meteoroids hitting the atmosphere from 16 to 25 April".

I say this because observations are always by night, but when at dawn I am pointing the Yagi to the east, where's Lyrae or Vega? High in the sky, not visible and above our heads. So, in a way every meteoroid we 'listen to' is a random one.
I am just sharing my thoughts with you, my only aim is to understand better this amazing phenomena which is Meteor DXing in which I am just a newcomer.
Buen DX!
Jorge Garzón. EB7EFA / EA1036 SWL
IN83ag Cantabria (Spain) / 43°15'N • 3°56'W
--
Rx: RSP1A/AirSpy HF+/Lowe HF 150/Sony SA3-ES-EE
Ant.: Fanfare FM-2G/Wellbrook 1530LN/5el SKT Yagi
Blog: http://iberiadx.wordpress.com

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